#characters of color so white characters never have to Think abt this privilege and what it means and the thing is! i get it!

[tvxcue]

ik it's been four years since bridgerton was first released and i just started getting into it this year so it's probably already been discussed but one of the aspects of the racial dynamics in the show, specifically in s1, that frustrates me a lot is the awareness of race that the characters of color show versus the ignorance of white characters.

like simon's entire background is shaped by his and his family's race. his father was also ableist and abused him because of that but that abuse and ableism is also intrinsically tied to the fact that the elevation of people of color is NEW in this society and he calls it precarious. we get lady danbury who essentially argues that this new racial order is permanent and that fear is irrational and sure we can take that as fact for this universe but this doesn't erase the fact that simon's trauma and resistance to having children is informed by a very recent history of discrimination and bigotry towards people of color and that daphne never has to learn about this or confront this. she's not only backed by the narrative in her assault of simon, he is treated as unreasonable and prideful for his anger at her afterwards. their story ends and their conflict is "resolved" when she "forgives" him and he "accepts" having children by "getting over his pride."

and sure, she learns that he was abused and realizes that's why he didn't want children (and that leads to her forgiving him) but 1) he doesn't really get narrative space to work through his trauma and 2) the racial underpinnings of his trauma are ultimately ignored and treated as irrelevant and it's a topic that's never addressed again in the show.

and this feels particularly dismissive because we get lord featherington (the first one) literally referencing slavery and the fact that will's father was enslaved in the american colonies as he's trying to convince will to throw his last fight so there ARE white people who are aware of these racial dynamics and history and here, see one using that history to manipulate a black man. yet the "good" white characters are allowed to be ignorant as a way to maintain that "goodness" because otherwise, we would have to actually reckon with the colonial and white supremacist underpinnings of this society and how white people perpetuate this structure.

and lord featherington is kind of useless and antagonistic throughout s1, so he can be a this mouthpiece but that also throws into question marina's place in the featherington household and portia's treatment of her and penelope eventually writing about her pregnancy but that's still never acknowledged! portia gets a line at the end where she calls marina strong and her actions are validated as her trying her best to make sure marina + all the featherington women survive but it still feels like a gap in the show's discussion of race that exists so that none of the white characters have to grapple with race while non-white characters (and in s1, black characters specifically) are subject to horrors.

and s2 continues this because even as british colonialism in india is gestured to throughout, no white character has to acknowledge the specificity of the sharmas' vulnerability and status as indian women in this society. kate talks about forcing herself to tolerate british (white) culture for the sake of edwina's future with lady danbury, but anthony never really has to think about that. (and yes in s3 we get anthony suggesting they go to india and wanting to learn about kate's culture for their child but that's literally the one and only time a white character has actually considered that the experiences of non-white people is different from white people and still doesn't address the implied racism that's still present in other parts of the show. like we get anthony, benedict, and colin being directly confronted by women about the misogyny in their society and their privilege as men but NOTHING about whiteness despite characters of color being aware of the difference and inequality.)

and even though s3 is abt two white leads, the parallels with the mondrich family's plot that season raises a lot of questions about how truly equal this society is because penelope and colin are both allowed to be writers (have jobs) and be part of the ton while will and alice have to sell their club in order to be respected and accepted by the ton. and while yes, the mondrich's are newly elevated and it's their son that is titled, not them, while colin and penelope come from established nobility so classism is at play here.......black people and other people of color have only been granted titles within the last 50 years, that's why the two white characters have the privilege of class, so it's still valid to question that double standard because it's directly related to the show universe's established history of racial discrimination. moreover, the people who directly tell will and alice they should give up the club in order to be accepted are literally two black characters (lady danbury and lord garrett). which comes back to the point that people of color in this universe are aware of race and racism but white people are not and are allowed to stay that way, which is an incredibly frustrating dynamic to watch.

[1eos]

May I have some lovely book recommendations on this day <3 😁😁 I'm trying to read more this next year

you sure can!!!!! i'll list my fave reads of the past few years:

convenience store woman by sayaka murata -one of my fave books of all timeeeeee. its basically about a woman who just doesnt fit in into 'normal' society and even tho she's happy ppl feel like she shouldnt be bc she's not progressing w everyone else. if you've been the weird girl ever this book will

ring shout - p djeli clark. a historical fiction novel where the kkk are like demons and theres this organization of black hunters. its action packed but what makes it so amazing is the emotional growth of the characters :') an all time fave

the vanishing half - brit bennett. another AMAZING historical fiction book. its abt family lines....and colorism and twins and what it means to be white passing and privilege and generational trauma. it honestly has toni morrison core vibes where there's a lot of pain but thru love all is healed!

there's no such thing as an easy job by kikuko tsumura. a bit of an eclectic read. this woman takes on different jobs and they each give her grief in a new way. very relatable esp if you hate your job 😭

the vegetarian by han kang. THEE GOAT. i will recc this book until the day i DIE. and even then. its technically a horror story abt the fallout after a woman has a dream/vision and decides to stop eating meat but its sooo much deeper than that. its such a great look at how, as a woman, everything abt you is subject to critique down to what you eat

parasite eve. thee classic scifi horror the video game was inspired by! think frankenstein but there's a love story underneath. but also you question if it was love at all bc what if the mitochrondria inside of us are just manipulating everything we do? i loved it! writing style is a bit clinical but idc

my sister the serial killer by oyinkan braithwaite...i read this one in a single day it was THAT GOOD. sister is a serial killer and the fucking implications and fucked up shit that comes from lookism and family expectations and misogyny tbh. love it~

annihilation by jeff vandermeer. the first in a series but you can just read the first one. its sooooooooooooooooooo good. its a scifi book about this mysterious barrier off the coast that's slowly expanding and inside nature is reclaiming its space and most everyone that enters the barrier never returns.....another quick read bc it will have you HOOKED

yellowface by r f kuang. i don't usually enjoy satire but r f kuang really TOOK IT THERE. this is the most infuriating book you'll ever read but in the best way. this white author w an inferiority complex objectifies her friend that she secretly hates and then steals her friend's book. only thing is the friend is proudly asian and her book is abt specific cultural history so the white girl does diet yellowface and is just a massive bitch

beloved by toni morrison. how do you sum up beloved? i cannot sum up beloved. if i had to sum up beloved i would say 'love is a haunting but not every haunting is love and the only thing that can clear a haunting is love'

in the dream house by carmen maria machado. god probably the best prose i've read all year. a really beautiful but bittersweet autobiographical novel about a bisexual woman's experience with a fucked up abusive relationship and how subtle abuse can be. heavy subject matter but handled soooo beautifully.

the only good indians by stephen graham jones. WHEW. this is a horror......and this book will take you for a fucking ride i'll tell you that. its abt a group of native american men who were childhood friends and due to one mistake they're all haunted by...something that wants to get revenge on them. this book had me going 'DID THAT JUST HAPPEN?' multiple times

[doberbutts]

ralsei-kin

I think actually we should remake the "OG trilogy" but have more changes to established lore. (ALSO LIKE regardless of changes to lore you uhhh Have To Change Stuff because That's What An Adaptation Is???? All movies change at least SMTH because what flows well in a book doesn't look good on screen!!!) But also fuck it why shouldn't Galadriel be black??? And Legolas?? They already added more women & better female roles in the first trilogy we should do it again

CANNOT comment on the hobbit movies cause uhhh I watched the first one and was so bored I never bothered w/ the other 2. Its just WILD how deep rooted the Racism goes because nobody ever questions my white ass on whether I've read all Tolkeins works (I haven't! I read The Hobbit and I got halfway through Fellowship but couldn't get on with the flowery language, the only other Tolkein I've read through is his Beowulf translation).

IDK sorry for rambling but like, I don't understand how anyone can look at the questions ur receiving and not go "oh hang on, maybe this isn't abt me, maybe I should listen to someone telling me they're worried abt racism" when like the whole point of Privilege as a Concept is that u don't KNOW what privileges you have until someone tells u shit they experience and u don't! like white privilege is microaggressions like me never being questioned on my Tolkein Authority!

IDK about having Galadriel specifically as black since she is described specifically as being “pale-skinned” though that does give me the idea for literally everyone to be black and thus the “pale-skinned” Galadriel is just my skin tone in a world of people 5 shades darker than me tada fixed the story.

Since Tolkien’s a bit too flowery for you: Legolas’ hair color is a matter of debate because he’s usually depicted with dark hair due to in-universe reasons however Orlando’s Legolas really popularized the character being depicted as blonde so you can tell in illustrations whether the illustration was done before or after the PJ movies. And people get really mad at each other over this. Like, really, really mad. So now Legolas is both black and blonde fucking deal with it.

Also Glorfindel is back to being a woman now, yeah when he reincarnated he specifically asked for a female body and so she’s a woman and y’all got your Glorfindel scenes back but she’s still a woman because fuck you that’s why. At the end of the day these are fictional characters and thus it doesn’t really matter, it’s an adaption, it’s not meant to be word-for-word.

Anyway yes your point 100% agree, the entire topic here is “I think you folks are ignoring a race-based blindspot you have because you’re convinced you’re Good And Right And Moral but your reasons are overall hypocritical and there’s probably a different reason this specific adaption caught your ire” and “just because the post you agree with says it’s for XYZ reason I’d pay a lot of attention to the fact that they’re deliberately leaving out some racial context here” and “hey it kinda sucks that the first adaption of this universe to feature black people has a targeted campaign against it, feels kinda like white fanboy nonsense to me”

[spector]

same i used to be hal stan acc and followed you years back but now idc abt hal anymore. no matter what i say to fandom or dc, it never changes. tired of protecting and explaining so i left dc fandom but found inner peace ive been seeking

its a bit of a warzone bc u have all of this legacy characters competing for the limelight and their own comic issue or their own event or their own cartoon ... in fandoms eyes, if one robin gets a comic and the other doesnt that means that robin won some sort of competition and its seen as taking resources from other robins. the same goes for green lanterns, flashes etc etc. people dont seem to realize that one robin doesnt get the issue bc hes more interesting or whatever, the character that sells best at the moment gets the comic series. its all a business venture in a comic book market where sales of actual physical copies is generated by collectors and speculators who hope that, idk, TIM DRAKE #1 (2022) is gonna one day earn them thousands of dollars on ebay

some characters generate more profit than others and usually those characters are white men, often with an additional dash of nostalgia. this is why hal usually gets more exposure than jon. betting on a white guy comic is safer than investing in a series with characters of color. this is why hal is featured more often than other lanterns and it has nothing to do with his actual qualities or characterization. hal is not a person, hal is a fictional creation with many different authors behind him. hal is a brand, just like superman or batman is. all green lanterns are brands. hals just more established than other green lanterns are, he has more toys or keychains.

a lot of fandom spaces live in this utopian state of mind where they hope that the characteristics they see in their faves are enough to guarantee them future exposure. that if they like a character it means theyre good and they deserve more spotlight and if they dont get it, it means someone else took it from them. if hal gets a comic and kyle doesn't, that means hal took something away from kyle. this is not the case , there is no talent show that makes DC invest in some characters more than others. its just pure profit calculations. the fact that hal is a white guy with a military background is even more infuriating because it seems like a privileged person is using their status to get more exposure. and its true, he is more frequently featured because he is the same race as people who draw him, people who write stories for him. but hes not a real person and calling him stupid doesnt change anything. nor does it change the fact that there are years of artistic effort behind him, even if it was done in service of selling a product and only occasionally telling a message.

this is a longwinded way of saying that, dc fandom's obsession with discussing which character has more MERIT, should be FEATURED MORE focuses on the wrong thing. i think the intentions are good, we should always strive for more lgbt representation or more characters of color with their own focused stories. but its never some character's fault that they get a comic and the other doesn't. its the industry and the comic market's fault and id like to tell you that if you just support the right comic with all the right moral representation it will all be alright but comics are SUCH a fucked industry that its not even the case. i guess this sounds bleak but it also puts things in perspective. theres no use getting mad at an industry that is basically a house of cards threatening to collapse every few months.

[whenwegounnoticed]

My Turn To Talk About VioletVineyard, MVCreates, and the Glaring Problems of Power Imbalances.

Introduction

I have been on the fence about talking about my experiences, on one hand, because one of her mods and I are or maybe were (?) friends, and I valued their friendship but in recent light, I don’t know and because I want my main to be a safe place for other writeblrs and because I am afraid.

I was in VioletVineyard at the beginning of it -- and being in it did not feel good for reasons I could never put my finger on.

Let's talk about me and who I am first without giving myself away:

I have a disorder that makes expressing myself difficult, this is due to childhood trauma and a form of self preservation. My wording will be clunky because only recently, with the help of amazing friends, I'm learning the right verbage.

Now. Some of you will know who I am. Hello. Please keep me anonymous. Some of you might have a guess. Hello. Surprised? Maybe you're wrong. I don't know, I'm not in your head just as you're not in mine.

I have screenshots for some stuff and none for others. These are all personal experiences.

I will not be sharing the screenshots of those who were victims to respect their privacy.

Please bear with me. I know this will be long and rambly, but it’s how I make sense of my thoughts and brain.

VioletVineyard: Questionable Reality

I joined VV at the start of it, although it was already pretty big. I was excited! I admired many writeblrs who were in there and wanted to be friends with many of them. They were all so welcoming. And I felt, for a hot minute, like I belonged.

It was sprint of my freshman semester as a journalism major, and Mina reached out to me in the general chat, saying that if I needed help or wanted an In at some journalism company, to let her know because she knows people.

Great! Cool. A little odd but that was nice of her -- and.

That's how it starts.

A side: my friend has a theory that if people only present how perfect and amazingly nice they are, they likely are rotting on the inside. Nobody is ever perfect and always super nice, do not trust them. I do not subscribe to this but it is a thought in my mind now.

It took a week of me being there for the not right feeling set in.

First:

There was drama.

She would start it. She'd vague in the vent about someone and then outright state who she was talking about. And it would be about someone whose opinions she disagreed with. People would go and send anons or they'd bitch about whoever was the victim in the vent channel.

I don't remember if I participated but if I did, I am truly and genuinely sorry.

I think I got stressed two weeks in. I was already ill from invisible physical problems. The server felt horribly unmoderated.

I remember saying something because Mina was doing it again and being told,

"Then support in here."

Mostly innocent right? You support your friends, right?

It wouldn't have been a problem if:

The victim did something wrong.

Mina and this person weren't in their goddamn 30s or near that. They have a child, by the way.

The person was at least under 20.

From my scattered memory, the issue was OP either slightly vagued abt Mina or she just disgreed with OP.

Lots of red flags, right?

"But OP why did you stay?"

Emotional masochism? Fear? Because she, either knowingly or unknowingly cultivated this sort of atmosphere? I cannot speak for anyone else, but that's the reasoning for me.

There was, also, in the beginning, a hope that maybe things would change. Varying personalities, you know? And a desperate need for validation.

So, so wrong.

MVCreates & OP

So, get to the point OP. What happened to you?

A vague threat.

Mina....had Opinions. And opinions are just that, opinions but for her, they were fact. After all, she has her own reality and own story that helped form hers but some of hers were odd. Maybe not to most people who aren’t paying attention or didn’t notice the red flags ( “through rose colored glasses, all red flags just look like flags”) but they were definitely something.

She, for awhile, talked an awful lot about writeblr positivity. I could never really make sense of it -- she either supported it or was against it, from what I remember. (keep in mind, this was a little over a year ago and visually, I can see the gaudy green - red - yellow colors for pronoun preferences).

And I made a vague post about it and her. A few times. I was in the wrong for vaguing about her instead of just saying something up front.

Her response was, and I will paraphrase,

“Do you ever screenshot people vaguing about you just in case they enter a political career?”

I wish I had taken a screenshot. I’m sorry now that I did not. Maybe someone saw that, maybe they brushed it off. I don’t know.

From then on, I kept quiet about my thoughts and opinions because I did have plans to go into a political career -- but jokes on her, I plan on being a human rights officer for the United Nations lmao

Another incident (we’re almost done, I promise):

I was -- venting about gender dysphoria. I was Peak Suicidal at this point in time, just knowing what I was born with brought me to tears frequently. Mina had jumped into in the conversation and started talking about something vaguely related. She started talking about trans BIPOC experiences, which is great! Their experiences are things that need to be talked about because they are often thrown to the side for trans white people’s experiences and that is not okay.

I forget the middle part, it’s been over a year. It went from BIPOC experiences to something else, a conversation about gender? I don’t know. Maybe there’s someone out there who remembers. I doubt it though.

I remember saying, “I wish I would have been born with testicles and everything else because [I’m in hell?]” and she answered with,

“That would [mean / cause / ???? ] privilege.”

This person who has claimed she is non binary, claimed to be a trans ally and part of the trans community, said that to someone in the height of dysphoria and was suicidal.

You do not say that to someone who is experiencing gender dysphoria. To say that is transphobia. And yes, trans & non binary people can be transphobic. You are not exempt.

Violet Vineyard & Reprehensible Behaviors

Before I start this section, and I promise this is almost done, I just want to thank:

@radley-writes​, @gingerly-writing​, @lilquill​, @sapiencenotes​  @rrrawrf-writes​ & many more who have come forward about their experiences, whether publicly and in private. It’s admirable and brave of you to do something I could not. @nuwuhorizons​ & @time-to-write-and-suffer​ have amazing documentation as well.

There isn’t much to say that hasn’t already been said and documented, but I can corroborate the bullying Mina and the mods engaged in -- the stuff Radley spoke about I did not know about -- and that makes me ill. I’m glad they owned up to what they did, and for that, thank you Radley. It shows you are a much bigger and better person.

I will not lie, however -- I was hurt and felt a bit ill when you talked about what the mods did. And it made me question and second guess a friendship I have (had?) with another mod. But I think that helped put some pieces of the puzzle together.

 An incident that stands out to me (and honestly bothers me, so a few people have heard about this often and I’m sorry), very clearly and I have screenshots for but will not share to protect their privacy, was when they dogpiled someone who had been asking about writing a Jewish character. While they were falling into somewhat harmful stereotypes, VV was handling it.

Not well.

The person was a minor, for one -- teenagers make mistakes, they make them more if they’re not exposed to varying cultures and beliefs. And the person who was on the receiving end of this dogpile looked to be coming more and more unstable and all I could do is just. Grab screenshots of what I could.

And if you’re reading this, you know who you are, I am so sorry I didn’t say anything. That wasn’t right, the entire situation wasn’t okay. You shouldn’t have gone through that. I hope you find healing and peace.

A quick disclaimer: Violet Vineyard, as far as I know, didn’t have a lot of Jewish members. I know a mod was converting (but hadn’t yet) and I think I saw one or two people with the Star of David in their name or icon. That said, my paternal grandmother was Jewish and had been one of the few survivors of her family from the Holocaust. I cannot speak for the entire Jewish population, and I do not consider myself Jewish in religion but trust me when I say this:

YHWH would be disappointed in their (VV’s) behavior -- and if the moderator who is working on converting is genuine about converting, then I need them to think long and hard  about what is happening. This isn’t what Judaism teaches. And if you’re reading this, ask yourself, would G-d condone the actions of your fellow ex mods?

Final Words

Oof, this was long, wasn’t it? Must have been hard to sit through because I ramble! So. What’s left for me to say?

Not a whole lot but still, a lot but the stuff I want to say are not my lived experiences. It is not my place to speak on behalf of anyone else involved in all of this. And that is okay.

But to the people who were involved with the recent drama and dogpiled a trans teenager and to those who helped bully many people in this community on behalf of the oh so great Mina,

my question is  why?

What was a thirty year old woman, WHO HAS A CHILD, bullying a nineteen year old? Why was an almost thirty year old person with a toddler and one on the way involved in this as well?

Most or a decent handful of you were adults, some with children, some expecting. 

And Mina,

You used your age and position to manipulate people and for that, I find you the most reprehensible. Castor did not deserve what happened, neither did the victim mentioned above. Nobody did. 

I hope, in the end, you finally find happiness without having to lie about your talent and without having to manipulate people.

Thank you for listening and sticking around if you made it this far and didn’t bounce in the beginning.

I’ve said my part. If anyone wants to engage in constructive discussion or share their experiences, feel free to do so.

[kingjasnah]

actually. actually let’s talk about diversity in fantasy let’s give that a go. im mad and im gonna be that way for a while

don’t want to read all this? fair. tldr: fantasy writers who rely not only on the medieval europe model but also hide behind historical accuracy in 2020 (fuck it, from ‘95 onwards) are lazy and unimaginative and should be held accountable no matter how many white 20 year old dudes jerk off to whatever power fantasy is embedded in the plot. so lets chat about that lads. (slightly) drunk rant under the cut

now prelim shit: we know fantasy is used both as escapism and as a way to deal with various traumas via magical metaphor. staples of the genre. even if jk rowling busted out the laziest and at times offensive metaphor for ww2 and racism ive ever seen, she still adhered to time and true tropes. whatever.

so why have we, in this post game of thrones era, become insanely obsessed with realism? i can hear sixty 20-something year old men crying at me rn like oh ohh oh its based off the war of roses oh wahh all medieval fantasy fiction is based off england and the crusades anyway so women should get raped and people of color should be demonized its not racism its xenophobia and also gay people dont exist and disabled people are systematically killed off and if we stretch the magic fixes mental illness thing a LITTLE further we have straight up eugenics.

we all know where the england but myth thing came from. now the thing about tolkien is that while i will always absolutely love lotr, looking at the LAZY state of fantasy? damn i kinda wish he hadn’t revolutionized the genre. the bitch was still racist. he still didnt give a shit abt women (eowyn was just a vehicle to show how much he fucking hated macbeth anyone holding jrrt up as a feminist icon for that needs to sit the fuck down and explain to me why i can count the woman speaking roles in lotr, a story with a name and fleshed out backstory for every minor character, on one hand but thats! another post). he had something to say abt class with sam i’ll give him that but he is still 100% NOT what we need to hold our standards to in 2020. 

i dont want to talk about old school fantasy, like 80s early 90s cause theres literally no point. its sexist, racist, ableist for sure, this we know. david eddings (not even that old school tbh) can rise from the grave and explain himself to me personally and i still wont forgive him for ehlana. 

so let’s talk historical accuracy. quick question. who the FUCK gives a shit? WHO is this elusive got fan who’s out here like blehh actually??? this method of iron production is TOTALLY anachronistic of the time. ummm these vegetables in this fictional world were NOT native to english soil so how are they here? cause i know this is the classic argument but ive never actually met someone who cared about the lack of dysentery as much as they care abt the women getting raped on screen/page. 

god forbid you have to worldbuild for a second god forbid you can’t rely on the idea of fantasy readers already have in their head god forbid you have an original idea god forbid you spend more than two seconds thinking about ur setting (oh i should mention i dont....really blame GoT for its setting cause of how long ago it was og written but trust me i sure as hell blame grrm for writing a 13 yr old giving ‘consent’ to sex with a grown man within the first couple of chapters) 

If we accept the basic premise of fantasy as escapism, and i AM drunk so i will NOT be finding fuckin. quotes and shit for this but come on tolkien said it himself and as much as i’ll drag him he crafted the simplest and most powerful fantasy metaphors on the board rn. But if we know its escapism. If we know. then who is it escapism for? certainly not for me, the gay brown woman who busted through all of GoT in 10th grade. 

modern fantasy lit used as an excuse for that white male power fantasy is literally disgusting. calling historical accuracy is so fucking dumb ESPECIALLY cause we, as ppl in the 21st  century, KNOW women have been consistently written out of the story. poc ppl, gay and trans ppl, anyone with a god forbid disability has been WRITTEN out of history as we know it, INCLUDING the fucking war of the roses so HOW can we hold up testimony we know is flawed to support our FICTIONAL. STORY. just to??? support the white power fantasy?? literally noah fence but if you are a white guy who felt really empowered by every time jim butcher described a woman tell me: how do you think that’ll hold up in classic HisToRiCaL fantasy. you think thats a fucking noble pursuit? or are you grima wormtongue out here. 

(side note: jim butcher stop writing challenge i dont need to know abt every woman on page’s nipples. anyone who hides behind subgenre like that? ‘ohhh its a noir story thats why hes sexualizing everyone’ shut the fuck up an author isnt possessed by a fuckin muse and compelled to bust out 500k they have agency and they have choice and they MADE the choice to reserve said will for none of their female characters)

which brings me to point 2: target audience and BOY is the alcohol hitting me rn but WHO is this for? this isnt the fucking 80s we know poc and other marginalized folk read fantasy FOR the escapism. on god ive had a cosmere focused blog for nearly three years and. im just gonna say it im interacted with A LOT of yall and ive managed to talk to VERY few white straight ppl as compared to everyone else. 

like....who deserves to see the metaphor on homophobia or racism. joanne rowling? the bitch who literally tried to sell us happy slaves and the disgusting aids metaphor and the worst case of antisemitic stereotypes i ever saw in an nyt bestseller? yall think that was for US? or was it for the white guilt crowd. 

literally white people can find any book about them that they can relate to. but hmmm maybe theres a reason gay women care so much about stormlight archive’s jasnah kholin, a brown woman who’s heavily coded as wlw. or kaladin, the FIRST fantasy protag ive ever seen with clinical depression. hmm i wonder why a bunch of millennials are vibing all of a sudden. im not saying sanderson is perfect--but its the best ive seen from a white author tbh

maybe theres a reason a lot of poc vibe with a literary way to express trauma, and maybe thats why i specifically get so pissed when its not done well. theres a REASON books about outcasts pushing through and claiming their own lives are popular with people who arent white and straight and able bodied. Junot Diaz had a point. maybe lets STOP catering to those assholes who think theyre joseph campbell’s wet dream personified. ive lost respect SO many authors who are objectively talented. pat rothfuss can write so beautifully that ive cried to bits of name of the wind but literally i will never pick that series up again (not just because of the felurian. women in general tbh. mostly the felurian ngl) cause 1) i personally KNEW men whod jerk off to that shit and 2) there was no need for it there was no plot reason for ANY of that shit 

so like obviously thers an issue with authors of color specifically not getting recognized for fantasy and genre work but on god??????? im still mostly mad at the legions of white authors churning out the same medieval england chosen one books year after fucking year. have an original thought maybe. also im sorry that you as an author lack the basic empathy needed to examine the way that women? or any group of people that youre explicitly writing about see the world and would specifically see YOUR made up world. 

yes your fantasy should be diverse, but more than that it should be kind. if you as a writer cant respect groups of people who deserve it....what the hell are you doing in a genre that traditionally is about finding ways to express injustice through metaphor? tolkien’s hero was sam. fantasy was NEVER about the privileged. yall know who you are so stop acting so fucking entitled. peace out. 

[friendlylocalwhumper]

a long reply to a long anon criticism. deals with race, and oppression as written in whump fiction.

here are a series of asks sent to me about an hour ago, raising a concern/issue with my writing:

1/? dude. i was reading your recent story where emory (a young, gay, black man) was beaten by the cops and i finally had to say something. all your stories where he sits there and worries about how his white boyfriend is the target of police brutality bc of some form of oppression YOU (a presumably non-black person) got to make up?? those have rlly left a bad taste in my mouth, but the one where you actually torture your black character to show how bad the white one has it put me over the edge.

2/? these are real issues. ig i was able to ignore you using systematic brutality as “a fun prompt to write about!��� when race wasnt rlly a factor in your stories, but as soon as emory got introduced it became more and more inappropriate of you to twist these ideas. “wouldnt it be sad if lux got beat up just for being a warlock 😔” yeah. and his bf is black, and hes in danger of that every day.

¾ as bad as just ignoring actual brutality was, having to read a story where a young, gay, black man was graphically beaten by police officers for YOUR pleasure, for FUN, when it wasn’t even his race that put him in that position (which isnt even ur place to write abt for torture porn but at least its addressing a real issue) but the fact that he was mistaken as the class you made up and chose to make oppressed?? that was wildly inappropriate.

4/4 this isnt hating on your writing or whatever, so dont call it that and pretend its anything other than informing u of what you can and cant speak about. a reminder of your lane. these arent your concepts to play with, stick to a singular whumper or whatever and cool it on the police brutality since u dont know how to handle it (presuming there even IS a way to handle this correctly as a whump device, which im not convinced there is)

bonus/4 pls dont do the white person thing of just ignoring those messages or going “no its not racist. i know bc i dont think it is/ i say its not.” like. im just genuinely letting you know it’s inappropriate, and you dont get to say “oh its not! i didnt mean for it to be so its not!” so i would appreciate it of you would take it into consideration or at least address it

my response:

there’s some context that i think you’re missing, in terms of how lux’s world came about. i’m gonna try to explain it without sounding like i’m trying to veer off-topic.

the world in which lux and emory live is a dystopia. is it a dystopia because i enjoy thinking about, writing, and daydreaming about systemic oppression? no. oppression isn’t a trope that i particularly enjoy; it’s not, like, something i’m into, you know? the only reason that i set it up like this, with brutal cops and propaganda and general public hatred of this class of people, is because i needed an excuse for lux to get hurt often. i wanted to write him getting beat up, didn’t matter if it was by friends or enemies or assassins or aliens. just as long as i had some kind of general excuse, a plausible reason for him to get hurt as often as i tend to write. so i made a fictional society where people get hurt a lot. lux happened to have magic, thanks to the original prompt that inspired his creation, so i figured he could get targeted for that. that’s why lux, a white boy, is targeted for having magic, and why magic users are oppressed in the universe i made up.

i know that these are real issues. i am white, as you guessed. inherently, i will never truly know what it is like to be oppressed as a black man. i understand why this raised alarm bells for you, and why you felt the need to tell me about your discomfort - to stop my writing of these characters in this universe.

but do i agree with your point that i can’t write oppression because i am white? no. just like i think it’s okay for anyone to write sensitive topics like abuse, torture, conditioning, murder, and assault if they are careful and respectful enough about it. race is a super precarious subject matter, as it should be, because there is a lot of real-life suffering and fear tied into it. i don’t get to decide what’s racist and what’s not.

but i am not fetishizing oppression - or, at least, what i am doing is no different from what other whump writers dealing in sensitive subject matters do. i am utilizing fiction, which will always parallel real life in some way, to create a story that i enjoy writing and reading. i want to hurt lux, so i created a world in which i could do that. i try to walk the tricky line of writing diverse characters without just throwing characters of color around as if it automatically makes my content less white and one-dimensional. i also try my best not to give emory lines about his race, or give him backstory related to being particularly oppressed or privileged, because i don’t feel comfortable putting such words in a black character’s mouth as a white writer.

now for my last point: whump isn’t torture porn. just judging by your automatic wariness and word choice, i’m guessing that you’re not a whump writer. writers in this community are extremely careful. we tag excessively, use content warnings, and do everything we can to help readers avoid content they don’t want to be exposed to. we all know that whump entails the writing of torture, abuse, humiliation, gore, and many other things that, in real life, are terrible to suffer. that’s… kind of what whump is. there’s a general understanding, here, that we’re going to write such heavy things, employing something sort of like suspended disbelief, i guess, to let ourselves enjoy whump without stressing about the real-life parallels to the fiction.

so that’s my response to your criticism.

anon, i don’t really appreciate the fact that your last ask was a transparent bid to get me to publish your messages, but. well. i wanted to do my best to answer instead of just leaving these asks in my inbox.

[sotorubio]

hey! i also get annoyed when i see the mlm / davenzi + kieutou parallel posts, but do you think it's an issue when people make wlw parallel posts between kieutou and crisana/mayla? it feels less bad to me, like it's less making a wlw couple all about a mlm couple and more just wlw fans having fun pointing out similarities, but i know crisana are technically an evak too so it could potentially be problematic. idk what are your thoughts?

hi! that's a v good question!

personally i don't think it's as much of a problem bc obviously wlw couples share a lot of experiences n since the representation is scarce it's a normal response to group them together to an extent. also especially when ppl make gifs of all three (mayla, crisana & kietou) it's usually just a compilation of skam wlw couples to celebrate the representation, not direct paralleling or claiming that they're all the same! when ppl do it w the evaks even if it's crisana it rubs me the wrong way tho specifically bc it's kinda taking away from how meaningful original wlw stories r n i want that credit to go for the druck team n who came up w the idea n kietou to be appreciated as the amazing original couple that they r. bc like everyone in the community especially wlw who have so little rep deserve to be represented in various ways instead of always being put in to the same box no matter how original or different they r from each other

like for the record i don't think it's inherently wrong to make parallels n stuff like that w male evaks & kietou either but it's worth inspecting why ppl will jump to parallel lgbt couples that r nothing alike just bc they're both gay. it's complicated bc most of the time ppl r just having fun w it but i genuinely cannot see ANY similarities between kietou & davenzi for example. not between the characters individually nor between the relationship dynamic. only similarity could be fatou's & matteo's behavior around their crush to some extent but even that similarity kind of vanished w fatou's bold flirting & advice from the last ep, matteo could never smfjkd (lovingly). so i think in conclusion the act of paralleling w mlm couples doesn't seem that bad but it's more abt the reasons why ppl need to parallel it n if there's anything to back it up besides both being lgbt 🤷‍♀️ but maybe that's just my opinion

also to go back to the wlw parallels as i said i don't have as many problems w those but it should probably still be noted that kietou is the only one between two women of color. even tho mayla is also an interracial couple the main character is still white n we see the season from that perspective so it's important to remember that while any wlw can see themselves in the characters it's still more specifically abt wlwoc! i'm white myself so i'm not gonna decide whether it's wrong or right to constantly parallel them w the couples consisting of 1-2 white ppl but it's still necessary to understand that not all wlw couples will have the same experiences n just like we can't put every mlm & wlw couple into one box simply bc they're gay since wlw still have a unique experience of being gay & women, we also can't put every white wlw & wlwoc into one box simply bc they're wlw since wlwoc still have a unique experience of being wlw & not having white privilege

overall i would just prefer to see some nuance n thought put into parallels if ppl r making theories/analysis based on them but obviously i'm not gonna have an issue w someone making a "lgbt couples of the skamverse" gif set or smth like that!

[spelllingandthemysteryschool]

ok besides the chai tea thing (lmao what thats,,, wild) what dont u like abt dark academia

hmm. well firstly, i just think it’s incredibly white. like u never really see people of color in dark academia aesthetic posts and books and whatnot. so that’s already one thing i dislike about it, how inherently exclusionary & classist it feels. like all the classic books, schools, scenarios that are part of dark academia: white, white, white. also i watched rope dir. alfred hitchcock the other month & it was about two college students who murdered their friend and invited people over for dinner with his body still in the house just to secretly laugh over it & ofc this is fiction & just one example of “dark academia” media i guess, but i found that like. i just don’t LIKE characters who are part of that whole dark academia deal. i think they’re often privileged (and blind to it) & contrary & have low empathy & they never seem to be having fun & i can’t relate to them at all. i just think it’s sort of joyless. if it’s a niche genre and aesthetic u like, that’s fine! it’s a cool aesthetic to be sure! but personally i just don’t enjoy it all that much. also i like bright colors FAR too much. there’s just too much beige and black involved in dark academia for me to vibe with it

[iridescentpsychopath]

My comebacks to the little mermaid race arguments

 “It doesn’t stick to the orignial” Disneys little mermaid isn’t the original, it too, is a remake. So you can not say “the original little mermaid was white” when the actual original little mermaid’s race was never mentioned ( also because remakes history obviously shows to stick to the original soooo well but you know that’s just me)

”Racism doesn’t exist anymore there’s no reason to change characters to minorities for representation” Yes racism still exists in 2019 just cause your particular group of special white people with your rose-colored glasses aren’t racist doesn’ mean it doesn’t still exist. Like i’m glad you’re not racist and you don’t hang out with racist people to the point of ignorance but yes we do still more colored heros in our life to help empower colored people.

“technically if she was black in the 1400′s where this takes place she’d be a slave not a princess” ok but have you read....the original story???? And how much the little mermaid is a sugar baby in that story??? how the prince literally goes “the only reason I’m keeping you by my side is cause you look like the girl I love, but I can’t be with her so you’ll have to do.” and the whole “great honor” of sleeping on on the floor outside his bedroom door. What makes you think she wasn’t already basically a Stockholm syndrome case? (I personally hate the original Hans Christian Anderson story I think it’s dumb so I’ll out nitpick you any day on this dumb story)

“If they make Ariel black then they can also make Mulan white or Pocahontas ginger” yes....because Ariel being black 10000% affects the story the way those two princesses race does (this is sarcasm I hope you see that.) Like I’ve even had to argue about Tianas b plot being about a struggling black person in the 1920′s trying to make it in the world cause people were saying Tiana was not a race important princess movie so ppl could make her white if they wanted to. 

” if it was a black person being changed white then it wouldn’t be racist.” Yes, I somewhat agree this is a bit dumb, I’m a devil's advocate for white racism but also white people weren’t segregated and degraded for decades. being absive and manipulative towards white people isn’t a part of cultures histories (Besides a few very small blips in euro history but like, white people enslaving white people......isn’t racist). It wasn’t considered taboo for a black director (if they even existed) to hire a white person and have them play anything other than a white stereotype on screen. It wasn’t considered career damaging to act with a white person at some point. And i’ve gotten the comment on how yes there are white stereotypes in film and like yeh wow being stereotyped as nerdy or rich and privileged and ignorant is sooooooo like being always seen as ghetto and dangerous and uncivilized like black people are stereotyped, but please go off with your blonde self on how hurt you feel with blonde jokes while I sit overhear arguing about how ya’ll at some point only saw black people as slaves and not people.

And as I always ask when people wonder why they picked someone of a different color to play an originally different raced person, and trying to keep race and representation stuff out of it for you blind white people that argue 2

Hey....what if......and this might be a stretch but idk man.......if she just had the best audition tape????What if the directors just thought she fit the best for how they wanted to portray their version of Ariel???? What if all the other people, white, black, Asian alike that auditioned for this role just weren’t as good as Halle Bailey, and since obviously, they want to make a good film they’re gonna pick the person that acted and portrayed the character the best. And she just happened to not be white. Would you have rather a shitty movie with a second-best portraying actress ruining your childhood??????? No you dummy

And I’m not calling all of you racist cause you don’t like Halle Bailey playing Ariel, because sometimes people don’t think actors/actresses fit the part they did well lord knows I’ve seen movies where I thought the main character could’ve been portrayed by a different actor. I’m calling you racist when you’re aware of all the reasons above but are still in denial that points like 2 and 5 exist, or even argue against them. We don’t always have to agree on things but like get your head out of your self-centered ass and wake up abt the whole world, not just your white one.

[equalseleventhirds]

i mean, my 2 cents as both a poc and one of the people who like... accidentally started a lot of discussion about this

i don't think that the solution to this is to redesign jon to be universally portrayed by fandom as white; like op said, the real problem lies in canon refusing to give a race to a character played by a white man, but what fans do and what canon does is different. and it's become such an established part of fanon to have brown jon that entirely walking that back now is kinda shitty (and tbh, inasmuch as we do have to deal with 'aracial' characters, i think having designs of a wide variety of races is probably better than any one universal design, just for like.......... not establishing a universal fanon. i hate universal fanon in general, but this one's caused... issues.)

certainly i would not ask you, anon, to undo your designs of jon, especially bcos you're a poc. like, if you are uncritically following the 'vaguely brown but no stated race/ethnicity' thing a lot of fans do, it might be best to like... do some thinking about that. but i think a lot of poc recognize that there are cultural differences, and especially those of us that project onto characters (hi, yes, filipino!martin my beloved) tend to like. do something specific with that. instead of 'ah yes look We Draw Vaguely Brown People, good rep!' like a lot of white fans do.

similarly, if you, anon, are prepared to really fully explore the deep and specific horror of what it would be like for sasha as a poc to be replaced by a white person? obviously warn for it, and think hard about it, but that is a valid take on it. the issue a lot of people were mostly having was that white people would do it ~for the aesthetics~ and not even seem like, aware of the extremely specific horror this is for people of color. definitely be careful about it, but i've seen it done with care a couple of times by actual poc. (i would hesitate to tell white ppl to do this, even with a sensitivity reader, just bcos it is so very much not like... a white person's place to be telling the story of a poc who has her life stolen by a white person? i mean, i'm sure it could be done? but talk abt like, irony & poor taste.)

(also, if you make sasha and not!sasha both poc and the same race, it doesn't really read as a racist joke??? like, we know what the not!them does. we know characters haven't forgotten sasha bcos they're racist. 'someone could interpret this as racist if they really really reached' is kinda... look, i've recently had white ppl say i was racist for saying white ppl who repeatedly tell accidentally-racist stories should maybe steer clear of those stories for a while, ppl will stretch to ANYTHING. do your research and try your best, and most people will engage in good faith.)

but mostly what we've been asking of white fans (of all fans, frankly, but it's white fans who are most egregious) is to a. think critically about how they portray race in fanworks, and b. think critically about portrayals of race in canon, and how changes in race can change the actual messages of the work. and 'think critically' doesn't mean 'criticize this and then never ever do it', it just means! think really hard about it! analyze it and figure out what messages are being sent, both by canon and by fanworks! (this includes messages about race, messages about the overall themes about power and privilege, AND like, unintentional advertising that comes from fandom.)

like, i feel like tone has been less 'never ever portray aracial characters as poc EVER', but more 'think really hard about what you're actually doing, and listen to poc when you fuck up'. there are good, thoughtful, nuanced ways of portraying a bunch of different headcanons. we've mostly just been asking that people take the time to like, do that, instead of using poc as an aesthetic.

(also wrt you can't whitewash fanon: you can't whitewash fanon. if you portray sasha and not!sasha as white, no one can tell you you're whitewashing. well, obviously people can, but it's fucking bullshit?

in fact, cards on the table, i think more fans should engage with what a white jon would mean for the messages in tma and how they interpret his character. not really walk back all their fanart/fanfic/etc of brown jon, but take some time and think about the text itself, fanworks put entirely aside, and what it would mean if we saw jon's actions as coming from someone who looked like jonny sims. how we'd feel about how he treats annabelle and mikaele and oliver and even jude perry. how we'd feel about his power in the apocalypse and even his actions as a boss in early seasons. etc etc etc.

this is entirely separate from fan creations and is mostly abt like, my constant urging for people to separate critical analysis of canon from What Is Good Fun in fandom; tma as it is SHOULD make ppl slightly uncomfortable, especially white ppl forced to confront some Stuff about privilege. but also if you do this, when you come back to making fun headcanons and fanworks, think also about what your race/ethnicity headcanon for jon changes about how you treat him, compared to how you'd treat him if he were white. like, i've seen some stuff where ppl make other characters absolutely tear into jon for being a privileged dick... while also portraying jon as a poc and those other characters as white. like, his race changing DOES change some of the dynamics, u kno?)

I've seen a lot of discussions about the implications of drawing jon as brown and i figured you'd be the person to talk to about this? (you can ignore this if you don't feel like replying!!) so here's the thing - I'm brown and i really like brown jon. i like being able to project onto that. but yeah i think i get what everyone means when they point out things that are wrong with that. but on the flip side, white jon designs are a minority and it would also be weird to suddenly revert to drawing him as white, i somehow feel like that could also have implications. also I've lived through the age of white Cecil and that wasn't very great either.

which got me thinking - while i completely agree with the criticisms about the fanon designs, there isn't a clear solution to any as far as i can see? having both sasha and not-sasha be of the same ethnicity could be interpreted as the racist joke where white people can't tell poc apart. having them both be white would feel like I'm whitewashing the fanon designs which is completely stupid because they're FANON but i hope you understand what i mean? anyway ghfhdgs i hope this doesn't come off as combative, I've just been trying to figure these out for days and wondered if someone else had an answer. have a nice day!

I'm going to give limited opinions here because while it's nice you thought of me, I'm a white teenager and while I have extensive TMA and TMA Fan knowledge I am definitely not who should be giving The TakesTM on stuff like this.

I do actually remember the days where white Jon was the most common, and the shift to ~ambiguously brown Jon~, at least to what I saw, definitely took over art far faster than it did fics. Which to me implies it was on a very aesthetics based level rather than one of exploring what the text would be like with him as a POC, let alone any one specific ethnicity, which is obviously very emblematic of a lot of the problems of people just copying off the guy next to them's art and going "Look it's Jon, we can all recognise that it's him because he's got the same 3 or so traits each time" without thinking about how that actually reflects on their interpretation of the text. But, exactly as you said, it would be weird to suddenly have those artists redesign him as white. So I'm not sure if there's an actual answer there, at least not one that I can give? Something that fans can't even be entirely blamed for, because of course that kind of shit is going to happen if you have a white man write and play a character and then refuse to give that character a canonical race. It's going to become messy and it's just easier to write with a character's race in mind.

I get what you mean with Sasha/Not!Sasha and from what I've heard others say it's best to keep them the same ethnicity, but I don't think you can really white wash a fan design since it's a fan thing and white washing implies a sense of canon? I haven't heard anyone bring up the "white people can't tell POC apart" thing but I would assume that would only be a problem if you Sasha design was the only POC in the archives.

But again, I'm white so nothing I say here should be taken as instructional so if any POC want to add on with their opinions please feel free to do so.